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Talking with Her on the Other Side: Abou Farman and Leonor Caraballo, Part 3

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Hailed by the New Yorker and VarietyIcaros: A Vision is a narrative feature about illness and healing at an ayahuasca center in the Peruvian amazon. The movie recently opened in New York, and will be playing there at Metograph until June 15. It will also be screening in Chicago, Oregon, New Mexico, Maryland, and Washington throughout the month of June. See the screening schedule here.

Leonor Caraballo, the film’s co-director, passed from this world before seeing it finished. The film’s producer and co-writer Abou Farman and Leo had collaborated with for 15 years as the arts duo caraballo-farman. 

Recently, Abou sat down with mediums and readers to see how Leonor, his partner in life and art, feels about the film, her afterlife and other issues. Below is an “afterlife interview” with Leonor, the second in a series that will be published on Reality Sandwich (you can read the first one here, and the second one here). The transcript (the reader of this posting is Pattie Canvoa; the transcript was completed with help from KK de la Vida) has been edited for length; no one in this world is responsible for its content. 

Leonor Caraballo
Leonor Caraballo

(Pictured right: Leonor Caraballo and Abou Farman)

Reader: I know you already know this, you have a great deal of spirits around you already. You are such an old soul, that you have been here so many times, that you walk through life rather lonely even when people are around you.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: You are absolutely creative and cannot do any other kind of work. And also, I feel around you right now you must be very careful that people don’t take your ideas. There’s so much that is coming out of you energetically, almost like electrically, that I feel like there’s a person that could be around you that you actually know right now that could be taking ideas from you and using it for themselves. And it’s a man. I think you know who it is. You might have even known them for seven years.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: Ah, I’m actually shaking because there’s so much around. Cause you come with your own tribe of people. It’s ancient. Was your grandfather a shaman?

Abou: No, I believe he, uh, may have been the opposite of one. [laughs]

Reader: You’re also writing screenplays?

Abou: Writing different things, but now no screenplays.

Reader: Because there will be screenplays in the future that you must take control of yourself – no one else should take it.

Reader: Ok, the place in the city, is it just your place?

Abou: Well it was my wife and I’s – well my wife’s place really – and I ended up with..

Reader: And she’s passed away?

Abou: Yes, that’s why I’m here.

Reader: Oh my goodness, ok.

Abou: And I didn’t tell you any of this, but I’m here with a particular mission.

Reader: She wants you tell her story.

Abou: Yes, I am, I am doing that.

Reader: Just give me her first name.

Abou: Her first name is Leo, short for Leonor.

Reader: She’s been communicating with you!

Abou: We’ve been in touch.

Reader: All right so you’re telling her story, you have to tell her story. But don’t let other people grab onto it.

Abou: But there’s also her story that is not her story, that is the film coming out next week. Because that film was done collaboratively, mainly by her friend and her as directors, me as writer and producer, and then she passed before seeing it finished –

Reader: The film is unfinished and you’re saying it’s coming out next week?

Abou: The film is finished and it’s coming out in four days in the theater. It’s finished, it’s already gone around the world, at festivals. But now, it’s sitting at theatrical release. And so it’s her film, it’s also partly about her, and I’m only a producer and writer on it, but I had to finish it for her when she passed away alongside the co-director.

Reader: Alright, please get the credit that you need from this film. Has it been to England yet?

Abou: No, it’s going there.

Reader: In England, it’s going to be a tremendous success. It has to be seen there, and also in Germany. Very strong.

Abou: Those are the two places it’s slated.

Reader: Ok, the real success is – it’s successful all over – but those two countries particularly. You do know that her body could not have gone on anymore?

Abou: It didn’t.

Reader: There’s nothing anyone could have done to keep her. And she’s absolutely fine not being in the physical body anymore.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: But her work is not done yet! Which I know sounds kind of like a contradiction. There’s more stories to tell and it’s gotta be through you.

Abou: Yeah.


Reader: But can you do it solitary from now on?

Abou: That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

Reader: It must be solitary. You cannot have other people infringing on you. I know it’s kind of a negative word, but that’s what I’m getting. You have to do this on your own now. It can’t be anyone else involved.

Abou: I rarely do anything on my own, except write a book.

Reader: She’s made herself very known in your apartment as well.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: You are very weird so I feel I can say this: You know the mirrors are portals in your apartment? You are aware that the way to contact her is by speaking out loud when she comes through, but you’re not seeing her in um, what’s the word, in solid?

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: So it’s just you? Why do I feel such a need for you to have more time solitary?

Abou: Because I do need to. That’s where I’m headed now, that’s the plan.

Reader: I think everybody around you is simply a distraction from what needs to get done. If you’re head was a computer, there’s too many windows open.

Abou: Just as it is on my computer.

Reader: It’s too much, and you need to focus, because you are absolutely – and you know and she knows this – you are absolutely brilliant. There have been too many distractions around you, even the past seven weeks. Your place, your place together with her, is very full of energy. It’s beautiful energy, it’s golden! But it is nevertheless territory there that nobody else should infringe upon.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: As far as she’s concerned she’s still married to you.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: You know that right?

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: You were together 15 years or more?

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: That was your best time. Very strong.

Abou: Um, can I ask specific questions?

Reader: Of course you can, absolutely.

Abou: I’m trying to find out what she thinks about specific things because she didn’t see the final –

Reader: Is there a part that’s black and white?

Abou: Um-

Reader: Because she sees in black and white.

Abou: She sees in black and white? Hmmm.

Reader: Yes, for some reason, I don’t know why. Is there a part in the middle of the film that’s black and white?

Abou: Mmm… no. Well, I was going ask about the beginning. In the beginning, it’s not ‘black and white,’ but it’s very black and white. It’s shot in color, but it’s at night. Pretty much all you see –

Reader: Is black and white.

Abou: Black tones, and white tones…

Reader: Yes, as it should be.

Abou: As it should be? The beginning?

Reader: Yes.

Abou: Yes, I thought so. Because it wasn’t there before, that’s happened in the edit.

Reader: What is the woman that is standing on your left? Is it your grandma that you were close to? Was it your mother’s mother?

Abou: No, I can’t, I don’t think so –

Reader: There’s another woman.

Abou: An older woman you mean?

Reader: Yeah, yeah.

Abou: A guiding woman?

Reader: Yes.

Abou: I don’t know.

Reader: Very strong. And there are birds too.

Abou: Yes, there are birds everywhere.

Reader: Yes!

Abou: Birds everywhere. And insects. So what does she think of the soundtrack? Or of the sound?

Reader: Well, it needs to be more?

Abou: Ok.

Reader: Can you make more?

Abou: No.

Reader: So what’s done is done.

Abou: But we can add to the soundtrack when it comes out.

Reader: Yes, yes. You made the sound? You made the sound yourself or there were others?

Abou: No, there were recordings. But we composed, we put –

Reader: But there were animals.

Abou: Yes, a lot of insects and birds. A lot. And humans.

Reader: But there’s symphonic sounds in there?

Abou: Yes

Reader: Beautiful. You also, by the way, have claire-audient hearing.

Abou: The what?

Reader: Claire-audient hearing.

Abou: What’s that?

Reader: You hear spirits in your head. Woah.

Abou: Yes.

Reader: Are you aware how old your soul is?


Abou: I don’t know what that means.


Reader: You’ve been reincarnated over and over again. You’ve never really fit in this time, and yet you’ve worked with technical creatures of this time.


Abou: Oh, you mean the gizmos?

Reader: Technical, like the gizmos of this time. But you’re from far ancient time.

Abou: So what comes through me from the past?

Reader: I think what you’re hearing, and what you adapt to film and writing, are voices from the past. But it’s like hearing white noise and you have to separate the white noise from the voices in your head. What other specific questions you have?

Abou: So you said the sound needs more, but what about the ending?

Reader: I think the ending must go on. I feel the ending is a bit abrupt.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: This is her, cause I’ve never seen it. Can it go on? Can you make more, eventually? Or are we talking about the second…?

Abou: Maybe it’s an opening.

Reader: Did she have cancer?

Abou: Yeah, not anymore.

Reader: Not anymore. But the healing of the ethereal body is still taking place. The physical body doesn’t matter as much as the ethereal body. Bless her in every way. Bless her in all ways because all ways, all spiritual ways, are right for you. You’re a bit of everything, like she is. All ways are the right way. All the planes of reality are real.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: You know, time doesn’t work for you the way like it works for other people either.

Abou: [laughs] What do you mean?

Reader: All time – past, present, future are happening all at once. That’s where you and she have met this time and you’ve met other times and you’ll meet future times but she doesn’t want to come back to this world very quickly. She’s still healing on the ethereal plane.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: So this – so let’s put it this way: this movie is the first of three.

Abou: Ok.

Reader: She – she wants to be used for your creative process. Her death is going to be used for the creative process, but she’s no sacrificial lamb. But it’s used for a good way. You’re showing her story and her story of others.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: You’re time is off.

Abou: Yeah.

Reader: The time frames are off. You don’t go by linear time at all. But it doesn’t matter though. You’re still healthy, you’re still going by YOUR internal clock, which is different from how the world works. You could easily be frustrated by the people around you because they don’t follow your rhythm at all, at all.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: That’s why there’s this solitary thing about you, where I feel your best work is done. So you kind of have to work in solitude.

Abou: She’s working with me, she’s –

Reader: She’s working with you all the time. She’s working with you all the time.

Abou: We’re doing it together, this is –

Reader: You’re absolutely doing it together. And that’s why it’s almost like the other people, they’re there but you they don’t count, it’s you and her.

Abou: Mhm.


Reader: I think that this film is going to be a huge success. I keep going to something that might be very future-oriented. Is there a woman you know who’s a professional dancer? Who does dance?

Abou: Yes.

Reader: Ok, this person’s going to work with you quite a bit. This is absolutely blessed by your wife. This is a good thing.

Abou: Yes.

Reader: She’s inspiring – I think your wife is inspiring her. She’s kind of manipulating the energy to work – this person – with you.

Abou: Yes, it just so happens that I fell into butoh.

Reader: Absolutely, this is wonderful. You know there’s good stuff around you. You know that. And yet I know you suffered the worse sadness with what happened. You do realize your wife knew she was sick for three years before this happened?

Abou: Well, she was sick for five years. She had her first cancer in 2008. And this was a metastasis. This was seven years total from the first cancer. And the damn thing came back.

Reader: But that’s not her real story. Her real story is your film, and what you’re making.

Abou: Yeah. Mhm. Sometimes we didn’t appreciate each other enough, a lot of the times.

Reader: She’s a strong person.

Abou: Oh yeah, oh god.

Reader: This sounds like a strange thing to say but I have to. Because the words are coming. She had dominion over you.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: She seemed like the stronger of the two. But you are strong too. Now you’re taking her strength.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: So not only is she strong in spirit, but she’s strong everywhere. And she’s using you as a medium to get her medium through. That could deplete the average person. But it’s not depleting you.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: But you must take care of yourself during this time. And this is separate from any message that she’s giving. You have to make sure you eat well and rest properly because what you just showed me – I know you love her – but she’s incredibly strong, to the point of, I’m going to say it – this could be a predator of spirit.

Abou: A predator of what?

Reader: She could be a predator of your life force, because of her strength.

Abou: Yeah.

Reader: And I know that it’s all being done in love. But she wants to be remembered and she wants her story told the way she wants her story told. And I say this lovingly.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: I know she’s a good person, she’s a beautiful person. But you’re being a little depleted by this project.

Abou: Yeah.

Reader: Are you remembering to eat and taking care of yourself? Cause you’re not.

Abou: Eat? Yeah. Taking care of myself? I was never really good at that.

Reader: Ok. Um, I feel so, this is a common occurrence for me, but I feel like there’s five people talking at once in my head. Because, you, she’s too – I’m sorry to say, she’s too strong sometimes, around you. And yet you must keep that house, the apartment. You must keep it. She won’t let you sell it even if you wanted to.

Abou: Mhm, I’m not going to.

Reader: You can’t. Um, you were with her when she died?

Abou: Yeah.

Reader: Of course. She’s stronger than anyone in her family. Wow. Wow. Yeah, so you’re doing everything you can – but you can’t – ok, are there projects that you can work on that don’t include her?

Abou: Yeah.

Reader: Ok. And it’s not like we’re trying to break free, from this, but there are so many things that you must do that can’t be about her. And she’s ok with that, I think… does the name Dominic mean anything to you?

Abou: Yes.

Reader: Ok. Is he in spirit or is he here?

Abou: I think he’s here, as far as I know, the last –

Reader: I think Dominic is trying to get through to you.

Abou: Matteo mentioned his name just two hours ago.

Reader: Ok, try to contact him.

Abou: That’s what he’s trying to do right now.

Reader: Ok. Your success is singular but also with her. So you’re doing this journey together. But she’s making herself amazingly, clearly known as she is the driving force here. She also has a wonderful sense of humor, with you. So she’s constantly making jokes upon you and at home.

Abou: What’s up with the cockroach?

Reader: It’s her. She’s not the cockroach, she manipulates the energy to make it happen. Has it been seen in the light? It walks in the day. Yes, it’s walking when it shouldn’t walk.

Abou: I’ve seen it mostly at night.

Reader: It walks in the day as well. It’s the same one.

Abou: It’s the same one. 

Reader: But also as you know her ethereal body has to heal on the other side so it’s hard for her to manifest herself in the physical form. When you see her in your dreams, her body is not mutilated by illness?

Abou: No.

Reader: She went intact, yeah? Jeez, what’s this? Do you have an issue with one lung, a lung, breathing, one side only?

Abou: Well, you know, recently I’ve developed this blockage here –

Reader: It’s breathing isn’t it?

Abou: Yes, sometimes it’s hard for me to breathe.

Reader: Lungs hold grief more than any other organ.

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: You’ve never really lived in your physical body. You’ve always lived in a cerebral kind of way. So the physical body is kind of like secondary to how you handle things. She also didn’t care much for her physical body. It was nothing that could have prevented what happened to her. Well you all know that. The dancer that you know, has she asked to work with you on the film? It’s somebody that’s close to you?

Abou: No. Well, I don’t know if it’s her or not, we’ve talked about potentially doing something together –

Reader: Yes you will.

Abou: I’ve never used my body, I’ve never danced.

Reader: This is so important for you. Your higher consciousness led you to find each other. But also, your wife has something to do with it. All the roads are crossing… The next film is going to be under an hour and I don’t know why, it may be in black and white. There’s something with different kind of coloring that’s not a normal kind of color. Ten of clubs is ultimate love. Creativity and art comes from your depression. This is not the end of your life, your life is moving forward. Not without your wife, she’s just in a different form. She’s absolutely there. But please remember to take care of yourself physically. Please remember to eat.

Abou: I eat! I eat, I drink water. It’s something else, I don’t get rest always, I get exhausted.

Reader: I have a theory about that and I think you know what I’m going to say. But there’s nothing we can do about it. I think her presence is so strong around you that she’s inadvertently using you as life force, so strong like a battery. Being conscious of this, you obviously don’t want to get rid of her. Of course you love her and she’s part of you. But because of her strength of her energy, you have to be more proactive in giving yourself energy. So if you can get energy by doing the dance, getting fresh air, out of the dark and into the light but go ahead and do the extra step and provide yourself with what you would give a beautiful plant. Sunlight, water, air. Because you’re being seriously depleted. She doesn’t mean harm in this. But it is like you’re being, the battery is going low. Even when you’re sleeping and getting a night’s rest, you don’t get rest. It’s like you’re sleeping to no avail. So just be conscious of it. Cause you are not really sick, you’re being – ok it’s like you’re constantly channeling.

Abou: Yeah, yes it’s a lot of channeling.

Reader: Because of the work you’re doing, you are in fact not quite here. You’re more there in her realm. Just be conscious – it’s weird for me to say – ‘be conscious of living in this world.’

Abou: Mhm.

Reader: Because you are in fact still wonderfully alive. So if dancing could help and working with the dancer, that’s your tether to this world. That makes sense. I think it might. You’re all about love and feeling but sometimes you have an abundance of feeling. You’re on quite a ride with this. Well, ever since you met her. This has been part of the big process, the whole journey. And her death was part of the journey. You knew that.

Abou: Yeah, it’s a big ride. It’s been up and down.

Reader: I just, I just feel like you are at the risk of being depleted of energy. And yet you go on.

Abou: Well, what else is there to do? Not go on?

Reader: Well, some people would want to curl up and die but you’re not going to.

Abou: I do, I have, many times.

Reader: Yeah but you’re not going to.

Abou: I wanted to go there and join her.

Reader: You’re not going to be fortunate enough to be with her yet. You have other things to do here. And maybe that’s part of the big plan is for you to continue and tell the stories you are supposed to. It’s part of the Bardic tradition for you to go on. And work with technology and be frustrated by people who aren’t doing as much as you are. No one sees the world the way you do. And if you can get somebody to catch a glimpse of what you see and to be able to record it, that in itself is a miracle.


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